Christian women and subservience

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  • #10473

    Rachel30199
    Participant

    To Christians: Do you believe women ought to be subservient to men? If so, what does ‘subservient’ mean to you? I’m curious because I’ve talked to a few religious Christian women about this and they all seem to have different opinions.

    User Detail :  

    Name : Rachel30199, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Jewish, Age : 33, City : Denver, State : CO Country : United States, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 
    #23934

    james
    Member

    Rachel, here a list of several New Testament passages that may shed some light on your question. As with just about every issue, you’ll find people that can/will support more positions than you can imagine. http://net-burst.net/help/n4.htm

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    Name : james, Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Humanist, Age : 50, City : Denver, State : CO Country : United States, Occupation : professional, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 
    #23405

    The media is known well for its ability to take words out of context. Many non-media people also have honed their ability to also take words out of context. If you were to look at the Bible verses before the ‘one’ that says, ‘Wives, submit to your husbands,’ you will see that there is a whole passage on mutual submission. Submission is to take place between each other, and then Paul puts it into the family context. Subservience and submission are not synonyms. Submission means placing the other person’s interests before my own. If my wife wants to see the ballet and I want to see a baseball game on TV, I am to willingly sacrifice my interests for her benefit. Submission is an act of the will to willingly give to the other person’s interests. Subservience is a forced service to another.

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    Name : Arnold Urbonas, Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 50, City : Edmonton, State : NA Country : Canada, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Lower middle class, 
    #38522

    Marissa22271
    Participant

    There is often a mistaken notion of subservience within the context of the Christian marriage relationship. The Bible in no way makes women inferior to men, it makes women equal to men. The Bible, does, however, acknowledge that all people have a specific, distinct, role to play in society. In every workplace, there has to be a leader, a boss, but this person is simply the person accountable for what happens in the company and is in no way superior as a person to the other workers. In a marriage, this holds true, also. The man is the head of the household, the one responsible for providing for and taking care of his family, and the woman is the one responsible for ensuring that her husband has all the support he needs to be able to do this. This by no means signifies that women cannot work or have their own activities or goals. It is a simple acknowledgement of the fact that the husband is the one chiefly responsible for the welfare of the family. As a Christian woman, I have no problem with this concept. I am a happily married woman who strives to provide for all the spiritual needs and moral support of my family while continuing to pursue my goals and interests. I am a counseling psychologist with my own counseling practice, and in no way has my faith required me to abstain from fullfilling my personal dreams.

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    Name : Marissa22271, Gender : F, City : Los Angeles, State : CA Country : United States, Occupation : psychologist, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 
    #45123

    Taz
    Member

    I’ve been a practicing Christian all my life. We were always taught that all human beings were created equal and deserve to be treated as equals. If you’re wondering why Catholic priests aren’t allowed to be married, here’s the explanation I got from my parrish priest: Catholic priests were allowed to marry at one time. But around the 12th century, it was determined that it would be better if the priests remained celebate and focused all their attention on their committment to God and the Church – and not be preoccupied by family issues. I forgot to ask why women weren’t allowed to be priests. But it does sound like a good solution to the shortage of clergy problem.

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    Name : Taz, Gender : M, Age : 33, City : Detroit, State : MI Country : United States, Social class : Middle class, 
    #16670

    teen24684
    Participant

    men and women have different jobs in the marriage. yes, men are supposed to be more dominant but they are also supposed to love their wife as Christ loved the church. marriage is a metaphor for Christ and the church. men, representing Christ and women representing the church. yes, they are supposed to submit but that doesnt mean whatever the husband says they do. if the men love their wives as Christ loves the church then wives should have no problem. true love is not ‘o i cant live without you’ true love is willing to sacrifice. Men are still supposed to support their family and take responsibility for them.

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    Name : teen24684, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 14, City : Notelling, State : MI Country : United States, Occupation : student, Education level : Less than High School Diploma, Social class : Middle class, 
    #18647

    J.F.K.
    Member

    The whole issue of subservience, or submission, should be discussed under the context of God’s words to Paul, which Paul wrote to the church of Ephesis. The Bible reference is Ephisians Chapter 5, Verse 21 ‘Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.’ Then Paul describes the different duties of husbands and wives. The first sentence written to husbands is, ‘Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.’ In my opinion, that means a man cannot ask his wife to submit to him until he has given his life for her, not just figuratively, as in getting married, I mean hung on a cross for a few hours until dead. I think if a man submits himself to others, in reverence for Christ, he can never, or very rarely, ask his wife to submit to him. On a more general level, my opinion of the ‘submission’ issue is like the Vice President’s role in the U.S. Senate. The Vice President only gets to vote if there is a tie among the senators. I don’t think a man gets to say, ‘Whatever I say goes because I’m the man.’ That is not putting his wife’s needs ahead of his own. If in discussing a decision the family has to make, the couple finds that the man is slightly for, and the woman is strongly against, I think the husband should submit to her. The only time I think submission could ever be invoked is if an issue is exacly 50-50. That doesn’t happen often in most families I know, so submission shouldn’t come up often, if ever. How a Christian woman defines her duty to submit to her husband is between her and God, not her and her husband. Final note to Rachel: the Bible doesn’t talk about ‘subservience,’ and it doesn’t talk about women to men, it only talks about husbands and wives. I know some people take that out of context, but I can’t answer for them. Please don’t let a confusing detail like submission get in the way of understanding that God loves us all very much, and asks us to love God in return.

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    Name : J.F.K., Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 43, City : Shell, State : NA Country : Ecuador, Occupation : Physician, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class, 
    #37618

    GM21746
    Participant

    As a practicing Christian, I believe that women (and men) should follow the Bible’s guidelines. Anybody who follows the Bible to a T will find that any relationship between the opposite sexes works much better.

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    Name : GM21746, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Biracial, Religion : Christian, Age : 26, City : Baltimore, State : MD Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 
    #46858

    Rajiah
    Member

    Rachel, Do you believe women ought to be subservient to men? If your faith requires this, maybe try a new faith or none at all. Equality, Sister, Equality!

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    Name : Rajiah, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Disability : Blind, Race : Black/African American, Age : 35, City : Minneapolis, State : MN Country : United States, Occupation : Jazz Flutist, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Lower middle class, 
    #26163

    Zac
    Member

    I’m not Christian but most of my family is. Having an impartial point-of-view, I can tell you Christianity – if not now – originally upheld the ideal that women were indeed inferior to men. Christian morals and the interpretations of the verses from which they are derived have evolved over the years to keep consistent with naturally evolving culture. Allow me to cite a scripture(King James Version):

    ([Ephesians 5:22] Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.)
    ([Eph. 5:23] For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body.)
    ([Eph. 5:24] Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.)

    No matter how you want to twist meaning, it says there that women should submit to their husbands just as all Christians submit to the will of God. Not only that, but verse 24 restates that they should submit to them in EVERY THING, in EVERY WAY, just as Christians with God.

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    Name : Zac, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 19, City : Ripon, State : CA Country : United States, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 
    #27024

    MaryBeth M
    Member

    I am a christian and have been for 6 years. Prior to that I was catholic. Either way, I will honor my husband’s wishes,1.) because the bible tells me to, and 2)he is head of houshold. He usually asks for and respects my input in family decisions, but the ultimate decision is his. I am lucky though. Not all men defer to their wives.

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    Name : MaryBeth M, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 37, City : Fenton, State : MI Country : United States, Occupation : Purchasing, Education level : High School Diploma, Social class : Middle class, 
    #19350

    Palomoa
    Participant

    Hell, no. I submit to God only.

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    Name : Palomoa, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Quaker, Age : 53, City : Dover, State : NH Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Lower middle class, 
    #42108

    Janet
    Member

    I always hate the answer that someone has to be the head of the family and that person should be the man. Why? because we live in a patriarchal society where we just assume men are better leaders – that’s one reason. What about team work – why can’t the husband and wife be an equal team? why does someone have to be the head, boss, leader? Because obviously whoever is in that position will have more power, I don’t care how egalitarian he thinks he is.

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    Name : Janet, City : Janesville, State : WI Country : United States, 
    #28150

    Anne23873
    Participant

    I was raised as a United Methodist in the South. I was taught that men and women are equal. I think that in modern times ‘subservience’ should equal ‘support’. United Methodists place no restrictions on women in clergy. I grew up with two women ministers and the South Carolina Conference has just elected a woman Bishop.

    User Detail :  

    Name : Anne23873, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Methodist, Age : 36, City : Columbia, State : SC Country : United States, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 
    #14991

    bj tillman
    Member

    In the times when the Bible was written, women’s role in society was vastly different than it is today. Most women depended on their husband for shelter and clothing and many women were considered ‘property’ by their husbands. In addition, women were not allowed to become priests. In today’s Westernized societies, women are earning as much as and, in some cases, more than their husbands. This, along with women’s rights and the civil rights movement has led to a drastic change in the way that women are viewed in Christianity. Today, there are women priests and even bishops in some Christian denominations. However, many Christians still feel that ultimately the man is still the head of the household. But, he is encouraged to listen to his partner and take her opinions into consideration and to treat his spouse as a partner not a servant. peace always, bj

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    Name : bj tillman, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Gay, Race : Black/African American, Religion : Christian, Age : 35, City : philadelphia, State : PA Country : United States, Occupation : Technical, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 
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